Carolyn Matthews (Figure 1) was born in Augsburg, Germany, on September 22, 1959. Because her family was in the military, she lived in several different places while growing up. She graduated from St. Andrew's School in Middletown, Delaware, in May 1977, and was valedictorian with highest distinction. In June 1981, she graduated from Williams College magna cum laude and was a member of Phi Beta Kappa. Also in 1981, she received the Scholar Athlete Award for her high marks in class and for leadership on the college's rowing team. In May 1985, she graduated from the Medical College of Virginia (now called Virginia Commonwealth University) in Richmond, Virginia, and was a member of Alpha Omega Alpha. Her internship and residency in obstetrics and gynecology were also at the Medical College of Virginia from June 1985 to June 1989, and she was chief resident during her last year. From July 1, 1989, to June 30, 1991, she was a fellow in gynecologic oncology at the University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Following the fellowship, she came to Dallas and Baylor University Medical Center (BUMC), and she has been here ever since.
Figure 1.
Dr. Carolyn Matthews.
In addition to an active clinical practice of gynecological oncology, Dr. Matthews directed the residency program in the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at BUMC from January 1993 to October 1999, and she was associate clinical professor during most of her years here at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas and, since August 2006, clinical professor at Texas Tech University Health Science Center in Odessa, Texas. She has received several awards for excellent teaching at both BUMC and Parkland Memorial Hospital. Dr. Matthews has published a number of articles in peer-reviewed medical journals and has presented at numerous medical centers and national meetings. She is a very interesting woman, with many talents, and she is a pleasure to be around. She and her husband, Curt Humphreys, are the proud parents of two talented offspring. She is a major credit to BUMC, to Dallas, and to her specialty.
William Clifford Roberts, MD (hereafter, Roberts): Dr. Matthews, I appreciate your willingness to talk to me and therefore the readers of BUMC Proceedings. To start, could you discuss your early life, your early memories, and your parents and siblings?
Carolyn Michelle Matthews, MD (hereafter, Matthews): It is a tall order to describe all of that. I grew up in the military. My father had gone to West Point and served in the army for 25 years, retiring as a brigadier general. A lot of people think that growing up in the military with an officer as a father would mean a very strict household, but ours was not so at all; there was a lot of laughter (Figures 2 and 3). My father was incredibly charismatic, a man of action who got a lot of things done. He was fun for my brother and me to be around. My brother is 4 years younger than I. We had a very nuclear family and did a lot of things together. When my father would come home from work, he would go out with my brother and me and play basketball or go horseback riding. On the farm, we built fences, cleared woods, and worked with the cows.
Figure 2.
Getting into the habit of putting on gloves.
Figure 3.
At age 4.
Roberts: Where was the farm?
Matthews: Virginia. In the 1940s, my maternal grandparents bought a farm in Hume, Virginia, about an hour outside of Washington, DC. I loved living on the farm and having a relatively permanent home. Although we often moved every year or two, several times my father was stationed in the Washington, DC, area, and we would go to the farm on weekends. We lived in Washington when I was in kindergarten, first, fourth, and fifth grades. During my fifth and sixth grades my parents started building a house at the farm. Before that, there was a tiny little cabin, basically a dining room, bedroom, and kitchen. My brother and I slept on old-fashioned army cots when we were there. From my seventh through eleventh grades my father was stationed at the Pentagon and at the Army Industrial College. During that time we lived at the farm.
When we moved to the farm, my parents bought seven Hereford cattle, and the four of us took care of them (Figure 4). I threw hay over the fence for the cows and the ponies before school in the winter. We made every mistake one could make with those cows. When we bought them, they had horns, and we had to dehorn them, which was a brutal affair. Herding cattle into pens when we needed to was not fun; it was the one time when, if a cow or a calf gave us the slip, my father would get upset with us. The first year we had a big Charolais bull, and for almost every calf born that year we had to get the vet out. I got interested in practicing veterinary medicine and worked with a vet for six summers and also during one semester of college when I had advanced placement credit.
Figure 4.
Feeding Ferdinand, an orphaned calf.
Roberts: How many acres did your family have at the farm?
Matthews: The original land was 140 acres. My parents, brother, and my husband and I have subsequently added another 160 acres. It's on the Rappahannock River. We now raise grass-fed (organic) Devon cattle. We were into organic before it became popular.
Roberts: Where did you go to school when living on the farm?
Matthews: I went to seventh and eighth grades in Warrenton, Virginia, at Highland School, where my mother taught fourth grade.
Roberts: What was your father's name?
Matthews: Church Myall Matthews, Jr. (Figure 5). He was born in 1936 and died in 1996.
Figure 5.
Her father, Brigadier General Church M. Matthews, Jr.
Roberts: Your grandfather was Church Myall Matthews, Sr.?
Matthews: Yes. He was born around 1906 and died in 1943. He was an officer during World War II. My maternal grandfather and my husband's grandfather were also generals. Every generation on my father's side goes back to West Point from 1857 to the present generation. My brother, Church Myall Matthews III, also went to West Point (Figure 6) and now lives in Warrenton, Virginia.
Figure 6.
Her family at her brother's West Point graduation, 1985.
Roberts: Your father was how old when his father was killed?
Matthews: Eight. His father was killed in the Battle of the Bulge. My father grew up with his mother and grandfather in Georgetown and went to St. Alban's School in Washington, DC. His mother died when he was 17. As a result, he went off to West Point as an orphan; his grandfather died during his plebe (freshman) year at West Point. It's amazing to me that he was so resilient. One of his philosophies in life was “live with the cards you are dealt.”
Roberts: Why didn't you go to West Point?
Matthews: I gave it a passing thought. I would have been in the second year that they allowed women in. I didn't express an interest in going to West Point, and I don't think my father would have wanted me to go there.
Roberts: How was your relationship with your father? You apparently did a lot of things together as a family. Did he treat you like a boy?
Matthews: I never felt treated like a boy. He treated me as if I could do anything I wanted. He did want me to know how to do many different things outside of traditional female roles. One of his first presents to me after I left home was a toolbox. I still get upset when my husband doesn't put my tools back in my toolbox. I was definitely “daddy's little girl.” I never had any doubts that there was a strong bond between my father and me.
Roberts: What did your father do when he wasn't working?
Matthews: He enjoyed working on the farm. He had a John Deere tractor that he loved, and he would bush hog (mow with the tractor), build fences, and rake leaves. It was a big property, and there was always something that needed to be done. My mother, brother, and I would help him. When we first moved to the farm and had bought the herd of cattle, our parents challenged my brother and me to work around the farm and house for 25¢ an hour. When we accumulated $50 we could each have our own cow.
Roberts: How many did you acquire?
Matthews: We each acquired one cow. I had red number two, and her first calf was called “Caesar.”
Roberts: Did you birth the calf?
Matthews: No, I wasn't there to help with the delivery. My husband is in Virginia right now, and he called last night saying that he had just “pulled” his first calf. They wrap chains around the calf's legs and pull it out. My husband manually pulled out this calf. It was a big calf, and it was the heifer's first.
Roberts: What was your home like?
Matthews: Fun. We were very close since it was just the four of us. We had lots of traditions. At Christmas, we always had to eat our breakfast before we saw the Christmas tree, and then we had a big to-do about who was going to go in first, whether it would be the oldest, tallest, youngest, etc. Being in the military, we were not wealthy. Every year we heard the story about not expecting much at Christmas and, of course, there would be something really wonderful under the tree for everyone. Besides the farm, we also lived in Watervliet, New York, at the Watervliet Army Arsenal, where gun tubes for cannons are produced. We were stationed there twice. One Christmas, during second grade, it snowed heavily on Christmas Eve. I remember looking out the window and wondering if Santa Claus was going to come. The next morning on the central golf green surrounded by old Victorian houses was a sleigh and a horse. The parents had all gotten together and found the sleigh. All the families rode in Santa's sleigh. That was a nice memory.
Roberts: What was your mother's name?
Matthews: Mary Elizabeth (“Wooz”) Bell Matthews. My grandmother called her Mary Liz and she hated her first two names, so she went by Wooz since high school. She was born in 1936, the same year as my father. They met in 1953 on a blind date at West Point and married in 1957.
Roberts: Did your mother go to college?
Matthews: She started at Centenary Junior College in Poughkeepsie, New York, but did not finish there. She eventually graduated from the University of New Mexico in 1963 when my father was stationed at White Sands. When I was in sixth grade, my mother went back to school for some work in education, so that she could teach.
Roberts: What is your mother like?
Matthews: She is a hard worker with many talents. She taught fourth grade. She sewed and made most of our clothes growing up. She helped my father on the farm. Equanimity is one of her prominent characteristics. She is creative and unassuming and gets everything done behind the scenes. She often has amazing ideas and makes any and everything possible.
After my father died, my mother married David Schoumacher, a journalist for CBS and ABC. He has a big booming bass voice and reported often during the Vietnam War. He and my mother married in 2001, and David moved out to the farm. They raise Devon cattle. They check the cows both morning and evening. David runs a radio station and is on the board for the North American Devon Association. My mother is the registrar for the North American Devon Association.
Roberts: What does that entail?
Matthews: My mother maintains a registry of all pure-bred Devon cattle in the country. A lab in California does DNA testing on the tail hairs. Devon cattle came to the USA in colonial times and are a particular form of cattle well suited to being grass fed.
Roberts: I understand that we have about 100 million cows in the USA, and every day we kill about 100,000 of them. How many Devon cows are there in the country?
Matthews: Approximately 2000.
Roberts: How many do you have on your farm?
Matthews: About 60.
Roberts: And 300 acres to roam in?
Matthews: A lot of that 300 is forest, but we've got some really nice pasture land.
Roberts: Do you eat bovine muscle (beef)?
Matthews: Yes, but I much prefer grass fed and try to avoid conventionally produced beef.
Roberts: You can tell the difference?
Matthews: It has a slightly different taste and texture. There is a thought that grass fed is going to become the next “wine,” where you can taste subtle differences based on what kind of grass they are eating.
Roberts: What kind of grass do you have?
Matthews: Ours is a mix, some Timothy grass, some orchard grass, and some fescue. My mother and stepdad refer to the pasture as the “cows' salad bar.”
Roberts: How did you adjust to going to a different school every other year?
Matthews: I didn't think about it very much growing up. I do like stability, though, and that is one reason I've been in Dallas since 1991, the longest time I've been in any one place. College was the first time I spent 4 years in one place. This was one reason I stayed at the Medical College of Virginia (Virginia Commonwealth University) for both medical school and residency (8 years).
Roberts: Were you and your brother close?
Matthews: We had our sibling rivalries, but I tended to be good in school, and my brother totally excelled on the athletic field. We both were the apple of our parents' eyes but in different ways.
Roberts: It sounds like you were an athlete too.
Matthews: I was, but not to my brother's degree. He had four varsity letters at St. Alban's. He played varsity football all 4 years at West Point. There are not many plebes who play on the varsity football team there.
Roberts: Was football his best sport?
Matthews: Yes.
Roberts: He stayed in the army?
Matthews: He stayed in for 5 years and then left.
Roberts: What does he do now?
Matthews: He has two jobs now. He works for Abbott Labs as a representative for their chemistry lab equipment, and he runs our family business; he also helps with the cows. After my father retired from the army in 1982, he worked for a company called Vie de France for 3 years. It made French bread and croissants. Then he bought a small business in Warrenton, called Tolson Appliance Center. (Tolson's used to be a general store; it has been around since the 1800s.) They had been in a rented building, and my father felt that over the long haul it would be much better to have their own building. He and I eventually bought some land in Warrenton and built a building there. My brother and I are joined at the hip; I own the land and the building, but my brother owns the business and runs it.
Roberts: Was dinner at night a big deal in your family when you were growing up?
Matthews: We always had dinner together as a family.
Roberts: What did you talk about?
Matthews: Usually what we had done in school, the athletics we were doing, what the cows were doing, what we needed to do that weekend on the farm. I don't remember talking about politics much.
Roberts: You were busy all the time, whether it was school or working on the farm. You didn't sit down much growing up?
Matthews: I love to read. I read a lot when we weren't outside working. I did not watch much TV.
Roberts: What is your favorite type of reading?
Matthews: I prefer fiction but also read extensively about nutrition.
Roberts: Do you read fast?
Matthews: Yes.
Roberts: Do you read every day?
Matthews: Yes, but some days for just a few minutes.
Roberts: When you were growing up, were there a lot of books around the house? Did your mother and father read a lot?
Matthews: My mother read a lot, and my father read very little. We did have a lot of books around the house. In our house in Virginia, one room has a wall and a half filled with books.
Roberts: I gather that you always excelled in scholastic endeavors. Did schoolwork come easy for you or did you have to work hard at it?
Matthews: I had to work at it. I liked it, thought it was challenging, had fun, but I studied.
Roberts: Were your parents on your back to make good grades?
Matthews: No, my parents were not at all on my back. My father frequently said to me, “Go out and have more fun.”
Roberts: He thought you studied too much.
Matthews: Yes. When I first came to BUMC after finishing my fellowship, I had another manuscript or two to finish, and he asked me why I was doing that. He said, “Nobody is going to remember you 100 years from now. Go out and have some fun!”
Roberts: You were always glad to go home?
Matthews: I was always excited to go home and hated to leave. We had a little game when we would leave, and my brother has kept it up with my kids. As we leave we have to say “You're it!” Each wants to be the last person to say “You're it” before leaving. Recently, my son and husband were in Virginia, and my brother reached in through the back seat window and tagged my son and said “You're it” as we started to drive away, but my son couldn't do anything about it!
Roberts: It sounds like your parents entertained a good bit.
Matthews: They had a very close crowd of other West Point and St. Alban's classmates that frequently came out to the farm or to another house. The whole crowd would always get together for my father's birthdays, and everybody would bring a chocolate dessert.
Roberts: But not for your mother's birthday?
Matthews: We didn't have the chocolate extravaganza, but she does have a clan of friends who get together for their birthdays, “The October Birthday Club.”
Roberts: When you were in grammar school and junior high, were there any teachers who had a particular effect on you?
Matthews: One teacher I really loved was Mrs. Wallach, my Latin and French teacher in seventh and eighth grades at Highland School in Warrenton. She was very demanding, a very interesting and amazing woman. She had been captured by the Russians and put in Lubyanka prison. She wrote a book called Light at Midnight. St. Agnes in Alexandria provided a point of stability for me because I was able to attend that school for kindergarten, first, fourth, fifth, and ninth grades.
In high school, because my father thought he was going to be transferred overseas, I transferred to St. Andrew's in Middletown, Delaware, a boarding school. St. Andrew's had been a boy's school until the year before I transferred there. St. Andrew's was another incredible turning point in my life, not so much for any one teacher but for the whole experience. It was a very nurturing community, a small enough school where everybody played an integral part in each other's development. I'm now on the board at St. Andrew's.
Roberts: You were there for which grades?
Matthews: Tenth through twelfth grades.
Roberts: How many students were in your graduating class?
Matthews: Fifty-four.
Roberts: Why did you pick St. Andrew's?
Matthews: My father had played squash and tennis against St. Andrew's and had a high regard for the school. Felix DuPont started it in the 1920s. It has beautiful old stone buildings with very small classrooms. Did you ever see the movie Dead Poets Society? It was filmed at St. Andrew's. The school was built on Noxontown Pond; the setting is lovely. When initially looking at the school, we walked by the boathouse and looked in the windows at the shells. My father said that I could be good at that sport because I was tall. I'm not sure what eventually led us to decide on St. Andrew's as opposed to some of the other schools in the DC area, but, nevertheless, that is where we decided and I did end up rowing there. The rowing was also a very significant turning point for me because it was the first time that I was really good at something athletic. Rowing is a team sport, but it's also individual in that you push yourself to the limits (Figure 7).
Figure 7.
Rowing in a double in Noxontown Pond with her high school roommate, Dr. Debbie Davis.
Roberts: How many are on the boat?
Matthews: At St. Andrew's, I rowed in an eight. In college I rowed in an eight most of the time but also in a four for part of my freshman year.
Roberts: There is one person in the back who is not rowing?
Matthews: Right. The coxswain, who steers the boat, tells you when to take a “power 10” to row extra hard, among other things.
Roberts: How long did you practice each day?
Matthews: At St. Andrew's in the spring we would start about 4:00 pm and finish about 5:30 pm or 6:00 pm.
Roberts: Did you study better during rowing season?
Matthews: I slept better because of it. Exercise benefits everything, so it probably did help me.
Roberts: Were you on any other sports teams?
Matthews: In high school I played on the hockey and basketball teams.
Roberts: How tall are you?
Matthews: I was 5′9½″ but am probably shorter now!
Roberts: How often did you see your parents during the 3 years of high school?
Matthews: During the first 2 years I went home about every 6 to 8 weekends and then for vacations. They lived at the Virginia farm. (My father ended up not going overseas.) In my senior year they lived in Watervliet again, and then I saw them only on vacations. But, my grandmother still lived on the farm and I visited her occasionally for a weekend.
Roberts: How would you get there?
Matthews: Someone from the school would drive me to Wilmington. I took the train from Wilmington to Washington, DC, and my family would pick me up there.
Roberts: It sounds like you adjusted to being away from home very easily.
Matthews: I definitely had moments of being homesick!
Roberts: Your brother was still at home?
Matthews: Yes. Nevertheless, in retrospect, boarding school was a very good way to become independent and to mature. The school was very small and tight knit. There was a 5 to 1 student-teacher ratio, with teachers who were incredibly dedicated. During the first semester, students had to go to “the pit,” which was basically study hall. After that, students could study in the library, their room, or at one of the faculty houses. My roommate and I frequently went to the rooms of the school nurse to watch TV or bake something. She had a set of rooms next to the infirmary. My friends and I would hang out with her.
Roberts: How did you pick Williams College?
Matthews: My mother would say it was because of the oriental carpets in the admissions office.
Roberts: Your mother had a good sense of humor?
Matthews: Yes, she does. I wanted to go to a small school and to one where I could row. I chose Williams, applied for early decision and got in, and felt right at home immediately.
Roberts: Where is Williams College?
Matthews: It is in Williamstown, Massachusetts, at the very top northwestern corner of the state, about 7 miles south of Bennington, Vermont.
Roberts: Williams is a great college. Is it a university or college?
Matthews: It's a college. They have a few postgraduate programs. One is a master's of fine arts, which they coordinate with the Sterling and Francine Clark Art Museum.
Roberts: You had done extremely well academically and were active in extracurricular activities in high school. You probably could have gone to any college of your choice?
Matthews: Possibly, but I never thought about it that way when I was in high school.
Roberts: How did you hear about Williams College?
Matthews: My parents knew of it. My American history teacher at St. Andrew's had gone to Williams, and I enjoyed his class.
Roberts: Did you have a scholarship to Williams College?
Matthews: No. My going there was very hard on my parents. Because we owned the farm we could not qualify for a scholarship. My father took out loans for my brother and me for our education, and I'm sure it was a relief when my brother chose to go to West Point for college.
Roberts: Did your brother go to St. Andrew's too?
Matthews: He did for 1 year and then switched to St. Alban's for the rest of high school.
Roberts: When you went to Williams College, what were you thinking you wanted to do?
Matthews: Initially, I thought I wanted to be a large and small animal veterinarian. I had worked during the summers with Dr. Springer, who first helped us with our calves. He and his wife became like a second set of parents for me. We had such a good time together. I traveled around with Dr. Springer in his car to horse farms and cattle farms and also helped him in his office. I assisted with spaying dogs and cats, helped hold animals, and cleaned cages. In my junior year of college I realized that I really enjoyed the medical aspects of the job and decided to apply to medical school rather than to veterinary school.
Roberts: What was your major in college?
Matthews: English literature.
Roberts: What portion of the literature did you like the most?
Matthews: I liked American literature: Herman Melville, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, and Emily Dickinson. I also loved the courses I took on Chaucer and Shakespeare.
Roberts: How did you decide to be an English major?
Matthews: I went to Williams thinking there was no way I was going to major in English because I hated taking English tests. But English classes were mandatory during the freshman year. I loved the introductory English class taught by Maria Torgovnick and ended up taking more English courses. I had one English professor after another who made it really fun. During my junior year I took an art history course. It was a very popular introduction to art history. We did architecture the first semester and art the second semester. I think if I had taken that earlier in college I might have been an art history major.
Roberts: How did your rowing team do?
Matthews: I would say 50-50. We were a very small school, so it was hard to compete against the bigger schools such as Yale and Princeton. They had a much larger selection of women to choose from. Williams' total student body was only about 2000. One of the women on our team was selected for the 1980 Olympic team, and I was invited to the selection camp for the 1981 National Team but didn't go because it conflicted with the first week of medical school.
Roberts: You made both Phi Beta Kappa and magna cum laude at Williams. What does magna cum laude mean at Williams?
Matthews: Magna cum laude represented the top 5% or so of the graduating class.
Roberts: You were probably in the top 25 among 500. Everybody there was a good student. Williams was a hard place to get into, right?
Matthews: It's much harder now. I worked very hard when I was there. I probably should have taken my father's advice and had more fun. I didn't feel that the studies were overwhelming. I'm glad that I wasn't premed, with that sense of pressure.
Roberts: Did you enjoy the science classes?
Matthews: I enjoyed the English classes more!
Roberts: Did you make a lot of friends in college?
Matthews: Almost all my friends were on the crew since we spent so much time together. It was a year-round sport in college. During the winter we did circuit training in the weight room. Most of the races were in the spring.
Roberts: What did the circuit training entail?
Matthews: We rotated through 13 different stations around the weight room: we would lift weights at one station, do push-ups at another, do sit-ups at another, etc. In the spring and fall we rowed at Lake Onota in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, about half an hour away. Both men and women would meet on the steps of Chapin Hall and take a school bus down to the lake.
Roberts: Did you study on the bus?
Matthews: No. We played a lot of charades.
Roberts: How many boats did your team have?
Matthews: We had varsity heavyweights, varsity lightweights, and junior varsity, so we had at least three boats of eight women each, and the same for the men. I was on the varsity heavyweights (Figure 8). We had t-shirts that said “Meaty and Speedy.”
Figure 8.
Rowing for Williams.
Roberts: Did you and your teammates become close?
Matthews: We did. We also spent our spring breaks rowing. The coaches would bring the boats down to Washington, DC, to a boathouse near the Watergate. We stayed in the Howard Johnson Hotel across from the Watergate. We ate our meals at George Washington University. It was a fun time for us.
Roberts: Did you receive a scholarship for being on the rowing team?
Matthews: No. There are many scholarships now for women in rowing. There weren't back then.
Roberts: You finished college in 4 years?
Matthews: Actually, because of the advanced placement courses that I had taken in high school, I only needed 3½ years of college.
Roberts: How did you decide to go to medical school at the Medical College of Virginia (now Virginia Commonwealth University)?
Matthews: I needed to go to a Virginia school for tuition reasons. My parents never put pressure on my brother or me to do well in school, but we both knew what a huge financial sacrifice it was for them to send us to school. Although it had crossed my mind, my father did not want me to go into the military so that it would pay for my medical school expenses. My choices were Eastern Virginia, Medical College of Virginia, and the University of Virginia. I liked that the Medical College of Virginia was in an urban area (Richmond). My interview there was with Hugo Seibel, a very charismatic fellow who was head of admissions and an anatomy professor. The interview with him was fun. He told me that I needed to go out and toot my own horn. I had never really thought about my accomplishments as stellar or unusual. (My family had lots of mantras or things that would come up repeatedly, and one was “Actions speak louder than words.” I think that is so true, and I try to live my life that way. Another one of my father's mantras was “If you are going to do something, do it right.”)
Roberts: How did you like Richmond and the Medical College of Virginia?
Matthews: I loved it. I really felt challenged academically. We had interesting classes and nice classmates. We had a group of seven guys in our class who called themselves the “sludes,” which stands for salivation, lacrimation, urination, defecation, and emesis (an acronym for what happens with parasympathetic nervous system stimulation). The seven rented a huge mansion in Byrd Park and called it “Slude Manor.” My roommate and I were good friends with them. They had incredible parties at their house.
During my freshman year I lived in the dorm. In my second year I lived in an apartment with my roommate from the dorm and a nursing student from the dorm. In my third year I lived in the Fan, an area of old row houses, in a wonderful apartment adjacent to Virginia Commonwealth University and across the street from the cathedral. It was an old house that had just been renovated with beautiful wood floors and a nice fireplace. My apartment was two rooms and a kitchen. It was about 2 miles from the hospital, and frequently I walked to the hospital. During residency, my grandmother bought a townhouse in the Fan, and my roommate and I rented it from her. We had wonderful neighbors on West Avenue. It was only 3 blocks long and a very tight community.
Roberts: How many were in your medical school class? How many were women?
Matthews: We had 165, with approximately one third women.
Roberts: Was medical school a pleasant experience? Did you do more of what your father had advised: work hard but have fun?
Matthews: I would say so. I really enjoyed medical school, but I did work fairly steadily and consistently so that I never had to stay up late to cram for exams.
Roberts: As you were rotating through the various specialties—medicine, surgery, obstetrics-gynecology, pediatrics, etc.—did you decide relatively quickly which arena you wanted, or was that decision difficult for you?
Matthews: It was difficult for me because in each rotation I found things that I liked. I didn't feel I could do pediatrics. I had never been around a lot of children growing up, and it never came easy for me to be around children. I knew I couldn't do psychiatry. I could have been happy doing medicine, surgery, or the other specialties. I ended up obviously in obstetrics-gynecology. My choice was influenced by delivering those cows, which I always enjoyed. I enjoyed the deliveries during my obstetrics rotation. I had a fantastic chief resident when I was rotating through obstetrics-gynecology as a medical student. He made the rotation exciting and fun.
Roberts: During your first few days or weeks of medical school, were there some surprises for you?
Matthews: I was a little surprised that it was as much fun as it was. It was a change for me in that I had more male friends than I had female friends.
Roberts: It sounds like you may have decided that you were going to do your residency where you went to medical school before you even started medical school?
Matthews: No, I hadn't decided that, but that opportunity arose. Circumstances led me to believe that if I chose to stay I'd have a spot, and it was a good program. Additionally, I could go back to the farm on weekends, which I did regularly throughout medical school and residency, since my grandmother lived there.
Roberts: How far was Richmond from Warrenton?
Matthews: About 1 hour and 45 minutes.
Roberts: How many babies did you deliver during those 4 years?
Matthews: I never counted.
Roberts: Did surgery appeal to you from the beginning?
Matthews: Yes, and I liked the personalities who were doing surgery. I liked the fact that they could make decisions and move on.
Roberts: How did you decide you wanted to do a fellowship in gynecologic oncology?
Matthews: I liked my mentors in gynecologic oncology. When I was there as a medical student and resident, we had two gynecologic oncologists, Hans Krebs and Dean Goplerud. I thought they were renaissance men. They knew a lot of medicine and were excellent surgeons. I thought they had it all. Their mentorship was one of the main things that led me into gynecologic oncology. At the time I also wanted something which, if I didn't get married, would fill up my life, and I felt that this was a specialty that could do that.
Roberts: As a fourth-year chief resident you must have done a lot of operating?
Matthews: I did more during my fellowship than I did during my residency. Our residents here at BUMC have much greater surgical experience than I did as a resident.
Roberts: How did you decide to go to Houston for your fellowship? That was a major move, leaving your family in Virginia.
Matthews: My best fellowship interview was at M. D. Anderson. I interviewed with Allen Stringer, who was then on the M. D. Anderson faculty. He said to me: “What can I do to persuade you to come here?” It was an incredibly pleasant interview and much different in quality than the ones I had at the Brigham and Women's Hospital or at Duke University Medical Center. M. D. Anderson was the first to offer me a spot. I came to Texas with the plan of doing 2 years of fellowship and then returning to the Medical College of Virginia.
Roberts: Had they given you an offer to do that?
Matthews: Not a formal offer, but that was the implied game plan. When I finished my fellowship, I interviewed at the Medical College of Virginia and had all but accepted a spot there, except they wanted me to take call in labor and delivery, which I did not want to do. When I returned to Houston from Richmond, there were six messages from Allen Stringer and Joe Jacob, both of whom had moved to Dallas to be at BUMC. Joe was a year ahead of me in the fellowship program. Allen Stringer went to BUMC in 1989, and Joe joined him in 1990. I finished my fellowship in 1991. I thought Joe hung the moon. He was an amazing surgeon and had a great sense of humor. I thought I couldn't find two better people to work with. I decided to come to BUMC and started in August 1991.
Roberts: It's nice to be wanted, isn't it?
Matthews: Yes. Those comments of appreciation don't come often enough!
Roberts: What happened at BUMC? You started in 1991 with Stringer, Jacob, and you. How did it work out?
Matthews: Alan Gordon also joined us in 1992 or 1993. He also was an M. D. Anderson–trained gynecologic oncologist. Alan Gordon is one of the smartest people I've met, and he is a talented surgeon. I was not very busy my first year but thereafter gradually got busier. Joe Jacob left around 1993 or 1994. For a long time it was just the three of us—Allen Stringer, Alan Gordon, and me. In 1993 Allen Stringer became chairman of the obstetrics-gynecology department at BUMC and asked me to be the program director. That was fairly early in my career. In retrospect I was pretty young to do that job.
Roberts: What were your responsibilities?
Matthews: I was in charge of recruiting and selecting new residents (at the time we had four residents per year for 4 years); coordinating the lectures and teaching schedules; ensuring that the education program was in accordance with the requirements of the Residency Review Committee; and overseeing the regular reviews by that committee. When I agreed to do the job, our program was on probation, and the next visit of the Residency Review Committee was not far away. It was an exciting challenge, not overwhelming or oppressing. We got through the review and were accredited for 3 years.
Roberts: Who pays for obstetrics-gynecology residents?
Matthews: BUMC does. We have always had a huge clinical volume. The residents at BUMC do a lot of operating. When I came to interview for the position with Dr. Stringer, he was operating with a senior resident who was doing his fifth radical hysterectomy. At that time, I was in my second year of fellowship and I had done only four.
Roberts: How many babies are delivered at BUMC a year?
Matthews: When I was residency program director, it was about 2500 deliveries a year. I'm not sure what it is now. It's got to be more because we have more faculty now.
Roberts: When did you resign from that position?
Matthews: In 1999. My family had expanded: my first child, Church, was born in June 1995, and Marion was born in December 1998. By 1999, I was feeling overwhelmed juggling everything.
Roberts: You had the best of both worlds. You had established your career by the time you got married and then you had two healthy youngsters.
Matthews: Yes.
Roberts: How did BUMC compare with M. D. Anderson and the Medical College of Virginia in your mind?
Matthews: I have always thought that BUMC was one of the best hospitals I have ever worked in. There are several reasons for that. BUMC has excellent physicians in many specialties, and I feel that the vast majority really try to provide prompt, attentive care as they would want a family member to be treated. Frequently, when I call another consultant to ask them about seeing a patient, the response is “Is she there in your office? Send her over right now.” That never happened at any other hospital where I worked. There is an amazing attitude towards taking care of patients at BUMC.
My father died of renal cancer. He was diagnosed on December 28, 1995, and died on March 26, 1996. We went to another major cancer center for a consultation, as it was supposed to be one of the biggest centers for renal cancer. I had called ahead. I sent all the x-rays and pathology slides to be reviewed. We went to the urology department for the consultation. Early on, someone came out and said that the doctor had to go get some lunch and then she would be with us shortly. Three hours later we were still waiting. My father wasn't used to having to wait that long! It was also clear that they hadn't looked at the pathology slides. The other disappointing thing was that I had made it clear that we were there for a consultation, not to get treatment, but by the time we had finished she had persuaded my father to come to Texas to get fluorouracil and interferon. We left and I suggested that my father come to BUMC before returning home. I called Dr. Steve Paulson, and he worked my father in either that day or the next morning. Joe Kuhn put a central line in my father that day. It's that kind of “I'm going to take care of you like I would my own family” atmosphere that really makes BUMC a great place to work.
Roberts: After you had been at BUMC for a while and your practice was established, what was your professional day-to-day life like?
Matthews: I usually get to the hospital around 7:00 am on days that I am operating and 7:30 to 8:00 on nonoperating days. During most of my time at BUMC, I have operated on Fridays. Recently, that changed, and I have begun working Monday through Wednesday. Typically, I see chemotherapy patients on Monday mornings and then operate the rest of the day. I see patients at Mary Crowley on Tuesday morning and office patients in the afternoon. On Wednesday, I attend tumor board at 7:30 am and see patients the rest of the day. If I need time for another operation, I frequently will come to work on one of my days off and operate, or if I can get a patient on the schedule early on Tuesday morning I'll do it before Mary Crowley. I started working part-time in 2003. The other 2 days I am studying for an integrative medicine fellowship I am doing with Dr. Andrew Weil at the University of Arizona. Also on those 2 days off I work on any talks that might be coming up.
Roberts: Before you went part-time, Friday was your operating day. How many cases would you do during that period of time?
Matthews: Usually three or four.
Roberts: Why did you pick Friday?
Matthews: I didn't pick that! That was the day our office could get blocked time in the operating room.
Roberts: How did you manage on the weekends, taking care of all of your postoperative patients?
Matthews: We signed out very well to each other. We were all operating on Fridays. That is just the way it works. Now it has morphed a little bit in that Dr. Colin Koon and I operate on Mondays, Dr. Jonathan Oh operates on Tuesdays, and Dr. Stringer operates on Wednesdays. We just got another new partner, Shawna Phelps, so there are five of us now.
Roberts: Did she train at M. D. Anderson?
Matthews: No. She's our first non-M. D. Anderson–trained associate. She trained at UT Southwestern.
Roberts: What do your activities at Texas Tech entail?
Matthews: Our group teaches there. Four of us take turns going to Odessa to see patients with the residents on Tuesday morning and then give a lecture and a tumor board with them. Then, we see patients at the Texas Oncology Cancer Center in Midland/Odessa the following day and fly home.
Roberts: You do that once a month?
Matthews: For me, it turns out to be every other month. I go to Midland every other month and Dr. Stringer goes the alternate month. Dr. Oh and Dr. Koon share the Odessa Cancer Center, and they alternate.
Roberts: What time do you wake up in the morning? What time do you get home at night?
Matthews: I usually wake up around 5:30 am and then exercise for 30 to 60 minutes.
Roberts: What kind of exercise do you do?
Matthews: At home I use an elliptical cross-trainer and an exercise bike and I walk our dog. Most days I do the elliptical cross-trainer for 30 to 60 minutes. On the off days, I walk the dog.
Roberts: How long do you walk?
Matthews: If I've done a lot of aerobic training, it's usually just for 15 minutes. If I'm really tired I'll walk the dog for 40 minutes and not do the equipment exercises. I usually do a pretty good workout. Then, I have breakfast. If it's one of my days off I take the kids to school. When I get to the office I round on hospital patients and then see patients in the office. After the office visits I'm usually in the office for another hour or two doing paperwork or reading.
I get home around 6:30 pm and have dinner. My husband does most of the cooking and I do the cleaning.
Roberts: Do you like to cook?
Matthews: I like to cook if I have lots of time. If I don't have a lot of time I don't enjoy it.
Roberts: When did you get married?
Matthews: In September 1993 (Figure 9).
Figure 9.
With Curt cutting their wedding cake with her grandfather's West Point sword. Photo: Beverly Rezneck.
Roberts: Where did you meet your future husband?
Matthews: I met Curt on a blind date set up by Dr. Stringer's wife and their next-door neighbor. We went out to see a movie. He drove up in his green Ford Explorer; I had a red Ford Explorer at the time. I was playing a James Taylor CD, and when we got into his car, the exact same CD was playing. We had dinner, went to the movie, and came back home.
On my coffee table was a book on Nantucket. He asked if I knew Nantucket and I said that I had just been there 2 weeks earlier. He said he had just been there too and asked where I stayed. I said, “At 'Sconset.” He said, “That's were I was!”
Curt's grandparents had bought a little cottage in 'Sconset in the late 1920s. My great-grandparents had a cottage in 'Sconset, and my great-great-grandparents had a cottage in 'Sconset in the 1880s, and it turns out that my great-grandparents knew Curt's grandparents. About 3 weeks after we had been dating, my mother called and said she had been looking through my great-grandmother's cookbook and there was a recipe there for Mrs. George's Cornstarch Pudding. Mrs. George was Curt's grandmother! There were so many coincidences: this marriage was meant to be (Figure 10)!
Figure 10.
With her husband, Curt. Photo: Beverly Rezneck.
Curt took me to Nantucket for Thanksgiving that year, and while we were all sitting around the table, I mentioned that my godmother, Mary Turlay Robinson, had lived on Nantucket and was an artist. Curt's mother said that when Mary Turlay was dying, she had given her her Bible, and my mother-in-law then gave it to me. Then, later on that year, we found out that my paternal grandfather had been teaching freshman English at West Point when Curt's uncle was a plebe. All these connections were just incredible, not to mention that I thought Curt was wonderful. We both knew by our third date that we would get married.
Roberts: What is Curt's full name?
Matthews: Curtis Harrison Humphreys. He was born on January 29, 1951. He grew up in Memphis, Tennessee. His father died when he was 5. His mother is an amazing matriarch—a very strong woman. There was a 3-year time span where her mother died, her husband died, and her brother died. She brought up three children by herself. Curt with his mother and two sisters spent every summer in Nantucket. Curt has an incredible number of Nantucket friends whom he has known since the age of 5.
Roberts: What does Curt do?
Matthews: He is a geologist who searches for oil, mostly in the Gulf of Mexico.
Roberts: How much is left there?
Matthews: A fair amount if you want to pay to get it.
Roberts: How do they get the oil when drilling 5 miles below the ocean's surface?
Matthews: It's amazing. He loves what he does. He gets together with his geology friends who have a language all their own. It's just like when physicians get together and talk about medicine. They talk about wells, British thermal units, how many barrels are produced, etc.
Roberts: Your first child was born when?
Matthews: Church Harrison was born in June 1995.
Roberts: What is he like?
Matthews: Church is athletic, very sweet, and very funny. When I was pregnant with Church, I developed an enlarged lymph node in my neck. My husband kept telling me to go check it out, and I finally went to Joe Kuhn. He put a needle in it and it was a papillary carcinoma of the thyroid gland. I was doing a consult on 2 Johnson when he called to tell me the news. The first thing he said was “Carolyn, are you sitting down?” I sat down and he told me the news.
Delivery was induced 4 weeks early, and 3 days after that Joe did a thyroidectomy and a neck dissection. Then, a month later, I had to have radioactive iodine because the neoplasm was throughout my thyroid gland and there was extensive lymphatic vascular space invasion as well as the positive lymph node. I ended up getting another big dose of radioactive iodine in 1996 and again in 1997.
Roberts: Things have been all right since?
Matthews: Yes.
Roberts: Your second child was born when?
Matthews: Marion Newcomb, named after my great-grandmother who lived on Nantucket, was born in December 1998 (Figure 11).
Figure 11.
With Marion on Nantucket.
Roberts: What is she like?
Matthews: She is like me when it comes to schoolwork. I hardly ever see my son study, and he still makes mostly B's with an occasional A and C. My daughter makes mostly A's, but she works a little bit harder. She is vivacious. She does ballet, tap, and jazz and plays tennis and the piano.
Roberts: Did you play a musical instrument growing up?
Matthews: No. I took piano lessons for a while in high school, but I didn't feel that I had enough time to practice.
Roberts: What is your home life like now?
Matthews: We like to do things together as a family (Figures 12 and 13). We still go to the farm frequently. Each of the children has a cow. Church's cow is named Miss Piggy, and Marion's, Summer. They get to keep the revenue from their offspring. We also had a litter of pigs in 2008, an heirloom breed called Tamworth pigs. Each child spends some time with my mother during the summer. When they are on the farm they have chores, such as feeding the animals.
Figure 12.
With Church and Marion.
Figure 13.
Hiking on the Galapagos Islands.
Roberts: How many pigs do you have?
Matthews: We had three. They are probably the first and last pigs we will have. The pigs get out of their little fenced field and wander off to forage. My mother recently got a call from the next-door neighbors saying that the pigs were in their beautiful garden. I think that episode ended our pig farming.
Roberts: What is your home like?
Matthews: We live in Lakewood, in a 1928 Tudor with wood floors and stained glass windows. We have lots of family art: my mother-in-law is an artist, so we have many paintings by her. We have two paintings done by my godmother, who studied in France with Pierre Bonnard and Jean Edouard Vuillard. We have several pieces of furniture that my father made. For a wedding present, he made a mahogany cradle, hinting that he wanted grandchildren sooner rather than later.
Roberts: Are there a lot of books around your house?
Matthews: We have fewer bookcases in Dallas than we have in Virginia. My husband and I bought a house and some land adjacent to my mother's farm, and that house has many bookcases that are rapidly filling up.
Roberts: How much time do you spend in Virginia each year? How much time do you take off a year?
Matthews: I enjoy my time off. This year I've taken off more than usual because I am doing the integrative medicine fellowship. By the end of the year I will have had at least 3 weeks of vacation. We usually spend at least 2 weeks in Virginia, and our children spend additional time there in the summer. Any long weekend that we have available we go to the farm.
Roberts: You fly to the Dulles International Airport?
Matthews: Yes. It's a 45-minute drive to the farm from Dulles Airport. The farm is a haven. The house that we bought has a huge porch in the back. We sit on the porch and look over the Rappahannock River and see the Blue Ridge Mountains and Skyline Drive in the distance. It's gorgeous and very relaxing.
Roberts: I presume your major hobby is reading?
Matthews: Yes. Most of my time off from medicine is spent either reading or doing things with my children or exercising.
Roberts: How do you like being a mother?
Matthews: I love it. It would be very hard for me, however, to be at home full-time. I love the variety in my life. My life would be incomplete if I didn't have my children and husband. They add a whole other facet to my life separate from medicine.
Roberts: You say you are part-time now, and that means you don't come into BUMC or Mary Crowley on most Thursdays and Fridays, but you are still for the most part engaged in medicine sometime on those days. Is that right?
Matthews: Yes, I'm working on my days off, either reading medically related works, preparing talks, or doing the integrative medicine fellowship. I've always been interested in nutrition. In high school I loved Adelle Davis's book Eat Right to be Fit, which she wrote in the 1960s. I think she was one of the original nutritionists to inform the public about the importance of nutrition. Since doing this fellowship I am seriously contemplating getting a master's degree or PhD in nutrition. I haven't decided which one I want to go for.
Roberts: How did you decide to do the integrative medicine fellowship? What does “integrative medicine” mean?
Matthews: Integrative medicine involves integrating some complementary modalities or other traditions of medicine besides traditional Western allopathic medicine. A treatment plan for a patient with a particular problem might include not only conventional medical approaches but also nutritional, mind/body, and spiritual approaches as well as botanical supplements, exercise, and Chinese medicine. This treatment approach is much more comprehensive and time consuming, but I think it has value for patients with chronic disease. There is so much more room in medicine for prevention, and an integrative approach also has a role there.
Roberts: What caused you to get you started in this direction?
Matthews: My own experience with thyroid cancer was very important, as was my father's experience with renal cancer. In the early 2000s, I started going to nutrition meetings sponsored by Columbia University and the University of Arizona. At those meetings, I learned about the integrative medicine fellowship. Initially, I knew I couldn't do it because my children weren't old enough for me to take the time off. But 2 years ago they were old enough; I was working part-time and thought that it was the right time. It has worked out well. The program includes 3 weeks in Tucson and 1000 hours online. I'm almost done with the online work. I graduate in December 2008. A lot of time is spent on nutrition in this course. That's why I've become passionate about that topic and would like to go on and do more.
Roberts: You do not want to give up the gynecological portion of your career, but just add integrative medicine?
Matthews: Correct.
Roberts: Is your husband an exercise enthusiast like you?
Matthews: We walk the dog together twice a day, and, when we are at the farm, he is very active. During the week he exercises but not quite as much as I do. He played football and wrestled in high school and has coached Marion's soccer team and Church's baseball team for several years.
Roberts: Are you a very religious person?
Matthews: I am very spiritual. When we grew up we went to church periodically, not regularly. Moving around so much we never had a regular church. When we lived on the farm we were not close to a church. At St. Andrew's I went to chapel every Wednesday night and on Sunday. That was important for me. I developed a sense of spirituality, a connection to a higher purpose, and it also instilled in me a great sense of stewardship for the environment. St. Andrew's is a beautiful place. We were all very cognizant of taking care of the land around the school. Its board still works hard to create an environment of sustainability. Between the efforts at St. Andrew's, the integrative medicine fellowship, and having the organic grass-fed beef farm, I feel like everything is coming together in my life.
Roberts: Does your family go to church regularly now?
Matthews: Yes. We go to St. Michael's.
Roberts: Is there alcohol in your home? Do you drink wine or spirits?
Matthews: We usually have wine in the refrigerator. I rarely drink alcohol. Chocolate is much more important to me than alcohol!
Roberts: How do you handle on-call duties now?
Matthews: Currently, we take our own call during the week. On my days off I sign out to the person on call that day.
Roberts: How often do you take weekend call?
Matthews: I share call with Dr. Stringer. Since I was part-time and he basically is clinically part-time because of his administrative work, we share call. I take call at the outside hospitals—Methodist, Medical City, Presbyterian-Plano—and he takes call at BUMC. It works out to be one of every five weekends.
Roberts: Dr. Matthews, you are now 48. What are your plans for the future? What do you want to accomplish in the next 50 years?
Matthews: Funny you should say 50 years—my grandmother lived to be 100! I would love to do something related to nutrition and prevention of chronic disease. I am amazed at what we eat and how sick we are as a society. Aren't you amazed? Right now I am doing it on an individual basis, but I would like to get more people to think about what they are putting into their mouths. It amazes me to see all these pastries and donuts at physicians' meetings.
Roberts: It's impossible to get a piece of fruit at some medical meetings.
Matthews: I agree. I gave grand rounds recently to the obstetrics-gynecology department on “Nutritional Oncology—Eating for a Better Fit in Your Genes.” I specifically asked that instead of our usual fare we have hard-boiled eggs, granola, some fruit, and green tea. It bothers me that we spend so much money on chronic diseases and that chronic diseases are starting at earlier ages. Where is the money going to come from when my age group starts getting Medicare? The system is broke. We could change that scenario by eating better—by getting rid of high-fructose corn syrup, sugar, and all the junk food we eat. Twenty-five percent of Americans' calories come from junk food!
Another thing that got me on this nutrition path is that last year I found out that both my son and I are gluten sensitive. Church has had intermittent seizures since he was 4. They were called benign rolandic seizures of childhood, and they were supposed to go away when he hit puberty. The best I could tell, these seizures were idiopathic.
Last year I had my vitamin D level checked and it was low. A friend suggested that I check to see if I was gluten sensitive because that could be associated with poor absorption of vitamin D. Looking back, poor absorption probably had nothing to do with my low vitamin D level because we get vitamin D mainly from sunlight. While I was getting tested I learned that gluten sensitivity could be associated with seizures, and so I tested Church as well. We were both found to be gluten sensitive, he even more so than I. We did the genetic buccal swabs for the HLA gene, and he had two genes predisposing to celiac sprue. Within 3 days of going on a dairy-free, gluten-free diet, we saw a difference. My mother was amazed the first time we brought Church to the farm, and he is now off of all medicines. Since then, my mother and her husband, David, as well as my family, have gone on a gluten-free diet. I have also learned that papillary thyroid carcinoma is much more common in those who are gluten sensitive.
We've also tried an elimination diet, where most foods known to be associated with food allergies are eliminated. These typically are wheat, corn, peanuts, sugar, dairy products, eggs, and chocolate. I had recommended this diet to a couple of patients, and Curt and I decided to give it a try just to see what it was like. We did it last fall and we lost weight, felt more energetic, and slept better. I recommended the elimination diet to my stepfather, who has an elevated prostate-specific antigen (PSA) level. He's had prostate biopsies once a year for the last 5 years, and they have all come back as “chronic inflammation.” David finally went on the elimination diet, mostly to support my mother who wanted to give it a try, and after 6 weeks, he had lost 30 pounds, his PSA level dropped by half, and he didn't have to have a biopsy that year. He was amazed how much better he felt. It's amazing what we can do with diet. I am astounded at what I see in people's grocery carts.
Roberts: You must write and speak more.
Matthews: I have thought for several years now about writing a book but haven't done it.
Roberts: You have a lot to offer, and you come at it from the standpoint of a surgeon. Use BUMC Proceedings as a stepping stone to get started.
Matthews: I have written a couple of articles for the North American Devon website talking about how food affects one's genetic expression. I also wrote one on omega-3 fats.
Roberts: The story of how you transitioned into nutrition certainly is an interesting one. Is there anything you would like to talk about that we haven't discussed?
Matthews: I have one interesting area in regards to having a physician in the family. My great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was Joseph Warren, a beloved physician who was in the Revolutionary War in Boston. He was the hero of the Battle of Bunker Hill. As a physician, he took care of both the common public, which is how he became friends with Paul Revere, and the aristocrats, such as Sam Adams, John Adams, and John Hancock. He was revered as a physician but was also well known as a patriot, politician, and leader. [Editor's note: See the article in this issue of Proceedings on Joseph Warren.]
At BUMC, we have “The Joseph Warren Award” for one of the chief residents. My family started that award after my dad died. It honors the senior resident who best balances leadership, medicine, and other activities in his or her life. The younger residents select the senior resident for the award. It's a nice award.
Roberts: Dr. Matthews, you are great. Thank you for sharing some of your life with me and the readers of BUMC Proceedings.
Matthews: Thank you.