MHJ	And did he [PS] explain to you what the programme involved at that point or later?
GM	He had explained it very, very clearly the time before, when we’d come down in October to his rooms and he explained the implications that there was no, up till then, had been no success. He was, he was brutally honest.
MHJ	He took you through the procedures and so on, did he?
GM	Yes. Mm-hmm.
MHJ	Yes, and you were happy with all that?
GM	Oh, absolutely.
MHJ	And the lack of certainty?
GM	I’m a great believer in looking on the positive.
MHJ	Did you ask him how many people he’d tried to help?
GM	No, I didn’t, actually; I just…
MHJ	Did he, did he say that?
GM	No, he didn’t. I think, he just said that there were other girls on the, on the programme; I’d probably meet some of them and I don’t think, I don't think I even thought to ask. I think, I was just single-mindedly thinking that, you know, it was, this was my chance and that if, you know, if I could, at least, be given this chance, then along with other people, we’d all, you know, we would all be successful. But, I didn’t, actually, think at the time, oh, I wonder how many others? I had, in my own naïve way at that time, I had, kind of, assumed that eventually it would be very successful and there would be lots of, you know, other women trying this and being successful. But we were also told at the time that it would be very, very secret. You know, for the, for the children’s sake. So, I accepted that at face-value that there may be loads of others out there and that we would never know – naïve, or what?
KE	No, no. For those days, you were quite right, yes.
MHJ	And they explained why they kept it secret, didn’t they?
GM	Well, I think, because of that, all the adverse publicity, which was horrible, I mean, how many innovative things have there been in history and nowadays we’ll look back on them and think, what on earth were…? And the same has happened with IVF, hasn’t it, now? How many people are there…?
MHJ	But you were aware of the negative…
GM	Press, yes.
MHJ	Did that cause you any concern?
GM	No. Not at all, because I believed totally in… I had met Patrick by that time and I saw what a really nice ethical person he was – very honest, and I trusted him, trusted him implicitly. So, I knew that there wouldn’t be a question of…
KE	I know what you mean; you could see that he was a man of integrity.
GM	That’s it. Mm-hmm. And then, of course, when I met Bob, that was it. I just realised straight away, what a wonderful person and…
MHJ	So, when did you meet Bob?
GM	When did I meet Bob? Did I put that down? Right, it would have been ‘15th February 1977’.
……….
MHJ	So that was when you saw Bob, again, at Oldham. Is this at Oldham General, all of this, or…?
GM	No, this was, by this time it was - I had the big operation at Oldham General and what also gave me a lot of encouragement was because it was Christmas time, they closed Kershaw’s down, so some of the girls who were at Kershaw’s came into the ward with me, and I, and I’m still in touch with one of the girls; we’re very close friends. And she never did have a baby. But she, they were still at the tail end of the, kind of, month’s cycle to see, you know, they had had the implant done at Kershaw’s, but they were moved up to the main hospital. But, unfortunately, P234 and P233 who were on either side of me… and I didn’t like to ask them; you could see they didn’t want to talk about it, but eventually I went over and said to P233, excuse me asking, but, you know, are you, have you, by any chance, been on a special kind of study with Mr Steptoe and they, kind of, looked and I said, why I’m asking is, I’m now being told that I think I’m going to be accepted on it. So that was all right. So they told…
MHJ	And so they took the secrecy thing very seriously?
GM	Oh, very, very, uh-huh, and then the funny thing was, P234, who was in the bed next to me, she was back in the next time when I went in and, in February.
MHJ	So, February, you met Bob and that was to go in for the first attempt, was it?
GM	That was the first attempt.
MHJ	Okay, you said that once you met Bob, all your fears disappeared.
GM	Oh, totally.
MHJ	What was the first meeting like?
GM	Well, he was just, he was just so gentle and, again, just so down to earth about it and just explained what was going to be happening; I wasn’t to worry. I would be coming, well, you know, in, coming in, for the blood tests and the carrying round the…
KE	The urine samples.
GM	Sample bottles, and orange bottles. Plastic orange bottle; and he explained exactly what, you know, what was going to be happening and, but he was just so kind and just, as I said, down to earth about it. Not, you know, he didn’t talk in technical jargon and…
KE	Yes, so he wouldn’t talk down to you, would he?
GM	Oh, not at all.
KE	Never, yes.
GM	No, he was, he was just wonderful.
MHJ	He just talked conversationally?
GM	Yes, just Bob, really.
MHJ	And did he explain to you about the chances of success and so on, or…?
GM	No, I don't think he really did. He just said that there were quite a few, well, there were quite a few other girls on the programme by this time. There weren’t going to be as many and they did explain that, that time, but he hoped I’d be fine and I know, he was, he said, I know you’re away from home, and then we started talking about Edinburgh, because he’d been up there …