JW	Well, I’m sure Patrick had done that. I mean, I think there was very little said, really, apart from that was an experimental project and we didn’t know… there were no successes. It was sort of, you know, take your chance. (JW, p. 19)
and
	I think people realised that it was just… the chap was just trying his best and they were grateful to be involved in the programme. I’m sure he explained that, you know, it was… the outcome was probably going to be poor in the majority of cases. And he had no figures to give them, of course, did he? (JW, p. 20)